16
May
08

Why There Are No Expelled and Ben Stein Bootlegs

There is an easy way to measure the success of any studio movie and that is by measuring how many bootleg copies there are out there on the street. You know think Jerry Seinfeld and they range in quality from pre-studio release copies to poor copies taken by Kramer wannabes. In comparison, copies of Iron Man have already hit the street. Now, before some reader goes off on a rant, let me set the record straight about bootlegs. I actually go to the movies or rent from Blockbuster on a weekly basis and if it’s a visually stunning movie. buy a legit copy for my own personal use. Why? I am a video and audiophile with a home theater and enjoy the sights and sounds of a good movie. Bootleg copies of movies are often of wildly varying quality and in almost all cases they don’t meet my exacting standards. Yes, I am one of those weirdos that play with different brands of HDMI cables.

With that said, I have to be honest with you there was no way I was going to spend $20 and give that money to the ICR, Institute of Creation Research, to watch Expelled. Plus, I would never subject my wife to an hour and half of this drivel, her time is too precious and she would kill me if I did. Moreover, I don’t go to the movies alone, its has been a couples ritual for me during the entirety of my life and I am certainly not changing my ways for Expelled and Ben Stein.

So I have been looking for a bootleg copy to watch to make my comments on this blog but guess what? There are no bootlegs, the street vendors don’t have any copies nor is it available online as a valid torrent. I even noticed that most of the major movie critics have kept away from reviewing this masterpiece as well (no, your pastor doesn’t count!).

Why? Supply and demand baby, nobody wants to see Ben Stein drone on about the horrors of Darwinism save a handful of religious fundamentalists and conservative gadflies. The rest of the silent majority is too busy trying to figure how we can afford to fill our cars with a tankful of gas, thank you Mr. George Bush. The gross to date, a month after the release of Expelled, is just shy of $7.5 M, not exactly Michael Moore territory for a documentary. So much for a Creationist’s revolution in the United States and things will not fare much better for this crowd with the fall presidential election. You can already hear the yawns!

Erik John Bertel

Authors of Flores Girl: The Children God Forgot

Great News! Flores Girl:The Children God Forgot is now available as a free ebook novel on the iPhone!

Advertisements

31 Responses to “Why There Are No Expelled and Ben Stein Bootlegs”


  1. 1 Jason
    May 16, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Gah! I’ve been trying to find a bootleg since it came out! I finally gave up. I’ve seen the Ben Stein interview on YouTube and I’m sure I’m not missing out on anything other than a propaganda film.

  2. May 16, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    I am sure I am not but unlike a lot of other pro-evolution bloggers and fundamentalist types I won’t specifically comment on the worthiness of a movie unless I actually see it.

    Erik John Bertel

  3. May 17, 2008 at 2:13 am

    Not to worry, I understand that the Sudanese are also creationists!

    Erik John Bertel

  4. 5 dwhitsett
    May 18, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    I haven’t seen Expelled. I merely posted a trailer on my blog, one of several hundred ways to view it. What has amazed and amused me is the number of folks who have already made a judgment based on their own prejudices, biases, expectations, etc. I have a friend who refuses to see the movie because he has already decided that it reaches erroneous conclusions. But this is the first time I have heard about a decision not to see a film, at least in part, because there are no bootleg copies available. I do plan on seeing the film just so that I can make an informed decision about its worth. Wow! What a unique idea! http://www.dwhitsett.wordpress.com

  5. May 19, 2008 at 1:20 am

    Like I said there is no way I am giving my money to Ben Stein and the Institute of Creation Research so I will continue to wait for that elusive bootleg. It is a matter of principle for me and likewise I will not comment about the movie and instead focus my comments on the ID/Creationist Movement in this country. Fair is fair.

    Erik John Bertel
    Author of Flores Girl The Children God Forgot and the Millenniumwriting.com blog

  6. 7 sean
    May 30, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    I have seen the movie and it was quite fascinating. The reason this movie isn’t popular is because it IS a documentary. Don’t compare it to the Michael Moore pseudo documentaries. This movie uses fact, not made up stuff to dramatize it.

    Ben Stein is a genius. That is fact. It doesn’t mean he is always right, but it means he has the brain power to analyze data and make conclusions.

    Spoiler Alert:
    Ben Stein even gets one of the great atheist minds to admit that ID is very possible, as long as the designer isn’t God.

    And that is the point. The movie never talks about God. It only points out that evolution is so flawed as to be literally impossible. So what are the alternatives? Well, don’t talk about that or you will be expelled.

  7. 8 F2XL
    June 5, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    “Like I said there is no way I am giving my money to Ben Stein and the Institute of Creation Research so I will continue to wait for that elusive bootleg.”

    What does the ICR have to do with this???

  8. June 5, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    Somebody in the Creationist Camp must have bankrolled this masterpiece!

    Erik John Bertel

  9. 10 FB
    June 9, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Well, I don’t know exactly where the money came from but it was produced by Premise Media. Walt Ruloff is the CEO and Logan Craft the Chairman of the board.

    Logan Craft is in fact Rev. A. Logan Craft and is the executive pastor of Christ Church Santa Fe even though he claims the following : “I’ve always kept my business and any kind of professional ministry stuff pretty clearly delineated”. (http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Local%20News/Anti-Darwinism-film-evolves-into-blockbuster-hit)

    Walt Ruloff has been financing Christian organizations for at least almost a decade, being, back in 1999, a trustee of City in Focus, which goal is “to communicate the love and call of Jesus Christ in a sensitive and challenging manner to the business and professional people of Vancouver, by means of a ministry based where they work”. (http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/bc.cgi?bc/bccn/0499/city)

  10. 11 F2XL
    June 13, 2008 at 1:26 am

    Maybe provide some evidence it was the ICR that pulled this off?

  11. June 13, 2008 at 10:43 am

    I’ll provide the evidence the day ID proponents provide some tenable evidence for their so-called theories. As of now I’ll reclassify my statement as a strong personal hunch.

    Erik John Bertel
    Author Flores Girl The Children God Forgot

  12. 13 Justin
    June 15, 2008 at 8:21 am

    But Expelled did get into Micheal Moore territory… its done as well (or better) than Moores debut documentary ‘Roger and Me’.. and that was the goal and ‘comparison film’ they were looking at here.
    The thinking being.. if Moore did that well with his first one and grew from there then Expelled might be able to do the same.
    Expelled did match Roger and Me in terms of box-office (granted, nowadays its the DVD deal that seems to be the big number in this).
    But yeah, Expelled is listed at boxofficemojo as the 12 highest grossing documentary of all time and its 5th ranked in political documentaries.

    The other thing you mentioned was the ‘torrent-o-meter’ but I have to tell you that I also noticed there were a number of ‘looped previews’ but of course you don’t know that till you get the massive file downloaded,
    but,
    maybe you didn’t notice this but if you watched the stats – there was massive grabs being made for (what people thought) was Expelled.
    At the time (the week after it debuted) it was one of the most active torrents going and even AFTER about 20 warning were posted saying ‘This is NOT the full movie’ lol.

  13. June 15, 2008 at 11:38 am

    Justin,

    You gotta stop being so literal…oops I guess that’s the whole argument. The comment was made tongue in cheek and moreover, I do know there were no bootlegs on the street. Plus $7 million gross is a bit weak. As to the torrent meter I did notice that the overall number of leeches and seeds was somewhat minimal, even weaker than Vista. To be honest with you the hype far exceeded the turnout no doubt stoked by both sides of the argument and in these turbulent economic times this whole debate is going to get lost with the American public.

    Erik John Bertel
    Author of Flores Girl: The Children God Forgot.

  14. 15 Jermaine Walker
    June 26, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Funny that the argument for not watching this movie is that you can’t find it. And the argument that it’s not watchable is that people don’t care about it. And the argument that people don’t care about it is that people haven’t watched it. Hmm. Funny.

    I try to stay out of these childish single-minded exchanges as a practice. But sometimes it’s just too abhorrent. As mindless as Christians who refused to watch the Da Vinci Code “on principle” is this nonsense.

    Peace and hair grease.

  15. June 26, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    You missed the point and I will distill it down for you so you can understand. I refuse to pay money to watch the movie because I don’t want to aid the cause of ID and other creationist nonsense and in the process of looking for bootlegs found there were none to be found. Why? Because nobody cares about this ID argument other than a few rabid creationists and Darwinists who insist on continuing to blog on this nonsense, myself included! Frankly, Americans are far more concerned about $5 a gallon gas and the dismal state of the US economy.

    Erik John Bertel

  16. July 4, 2008 at 1:30 am

    Wow!!

    It certainly looks like Ben Stein got expelled from the Internet. Yoko Ono is playing the bad Bitch because
    Stein used a small clipping from “Imagine”. This is absurd.

    http://expelledthemovie.com/blog/2008/04/23/executive-producers-of-expelled-no-intelligence-allowed-statement-on-lawsuit-by-yoko-ono/

    Ben Stein should simply openup shop and start selling boxed DVD versions of “Expelled”. These days People don’t visit city movie theathers in large crowds to watch docu’s like Expelled. They might get beaten up by a couple of Darwin followers, telling you “only the strong will survive”.

    Robert M. Stockmann

  17. 18 Matt Orelup
    July 7, 2008 at 1:41 am

    Well Rob, you showed the main problem with the anti-evolution belief. You paraphrase ideas incorrectly and refuse to learn the correct phrases when corrected. Darwin at no time believed that “only the strong will survive”. You hear survival of the fittest and think that since you know of one definition of the word fit, that it is the one you believe HAS to be used. How fit an animal is has nothing to do with it’s strength it has to do with it’s ability to produce viable offspring better than it’s competitors.

    And how DARE a woman demand to be paid for a movie company using her husband’s music. I mean really, copyrights are just so unjust to non-artists….

  18. 19 DeKLiNe0fMan
    August 16, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    Im a Christian i believe in Jesus as my Saviour and LORD. I dont hate u if u dont,….i pray ur eyes will be open. But the argument between creationist and evolutionist is to me the same as street gangs and white supremacy groups. A need to be a part of something , the fact that people who dont believe in God will waste so much time and energy debating something they think doesnt exist seems silly. Dont get me wrong there are religious nutjobs just the same as athiest/agnostic wackos. Fact is alot of people aint right in the head , or have spent waaaaay too much time alone up in their own heads. Every man will know the truth when he is dead, either they will stand at judgement ( which is what i believe, starting with those who claimed to follow Jesus) or nothing will happen theyll just be dead. Everyones is trying to prove they ar the ones that are right but were all missing the point. What blesses your life and helps out your fellow man?. If following Jesus’ teaching brings joy to your life AMEN ! If protesting the existance of devine creation helps you sleep at night and makes you a better husband and father , go with it. Many are called but few are chosen, you are given the choice in life of how you wanna spend your time on earth. Take some real time and meditate on this argument and ask yourself the motives of the people on both sides of it. Dont decide based on what other people say but decide based on what ur most inner-being (your soul, your heart, your conscience, depending on your stance in the matter) But for goodness sakes lets quit arguing just for the sake of arguing. *Steps of SoapBox*

  19. August 17, 2008 at 3:26 am

    Actually I did get off this topic. I am onto addressing human rights and China and why we need to stop appeasing Chines communists who we disgustingly tolerate because we make a buck with them.

    Check this link:

    https://millenniumwriting.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/boycott-the-beijing-olympics-and-free-china/

    By the was as to judgment day you forgot reincarnation as an one of the options. I know westerners for the most part don’t get reincarnation but over a third of humanity really buys into it. Also, I hope you agree you can be a good human being without being a Christian. I mean Christ did pretty good as Jew, right?

    Peace and don’t watch the Olympics!

    Erik John Bertel

  20. August 17, 2008 at 6:24 am

    I’ve been searching every website for a copy of Expelled. No luck. Being one who spends a lot of time on torrent sites (including axxo’s home forum), I found it slightly odd that this documentary was no where to be found.

    From watching the preview, I gathered that Ben was trying to bring up an issue he seemed to see of creationist scientists being unfairly treated for their proposals/belief. Fair enough I thought. While being obviously biased, it [the preview] never resorted to anything other than logic.

    What I find interesting is the immense response of almost outright censorship coming from what some consider the most freedom loving group of people on earth. I’ve never seen a torrent which has been more maliciously attacked. People went out of their way to make multiple fakes which are still up and running and I’ve seen comments and posts which were alarmingly hostile towards the film.

    Still, since (for whatever reasons) a real torrent hasn’t been released, a lot of conjecture will remain about what is really going on and if there is really any unique treatment by the scene towards this particular piece of media.

  21. 22 DeKLiNe0fMan
    August 17, 2008 at 7:46 am

    I also found this blog in search of expelled , whilst i was on a torrent search..Hmmm I smell conspiracy..Muhahaha

    As for reincarnation well that sounds just as peachy as a city of gold in Heaven i suppose .
    I understand the p.o.v from both sides thats why “I” dont judge. And the way i believe it is this…The principles and promises of God were breathed or inspired to man by God himself.
    So by putting Gods principles into action your testing Him on his Word. And with that said of course you dont have to be a Christian to be a good human being as i already stated in my first post. You can live a long a fruitful life never accepting Jesus as your savior. But i believe every mans fleeting moments of life if reflection and retrospect are possible will truly seek God ,if not for forgiveness simply because the seed has been planted.

  22. August 17, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Well as to being part of a conspiracy I started this particular blog thread because I too could not find this torrent. Expelled and the proponents of ID maybe anathema to my own scientific thinking and training but in all fairness I cannot comment on a movie I didn’t see. Even if I wanted to see the movie in a local movie theater the run was over in less than two weeks in my area. And my language for the most part has been civil as part of a debate rather than as a harsh argument. I have not called followers of ID and creationism “retards” as some evolutionist attack dogs have done in the recent past.

    One other point, reincarnation is not “peachy” , unless, of course, you’re Shirley McLaine,. The cycle of Samsara, birth and rebirth is painful as any sentient existence, as you fill an ocean with your tears and blood with no possible end in sight. Unfortunately such dismissiveness of other faiths by Christians and followers of other Mid-East religions is common and the crux of my argument against the introduction of ID into our schools. Assuming that the Homo sapiens has existed for several hundred thousand years it is interesting that God has only chosen to make his word visible to the 10 billion or so human beings that have existed for the last two thousand years. Makes you wonder what was going on with those 90 billion other human lives that existed over the past two hundred thousand years? My point is that the Judeo-Christian view of the world is only one world view fixed in a specific time and culture and belongs in a Sunday school rather than a public science classroom. See, no yelling and absolutely no name calling.

  23. 24 DeKLiNe0fMan
    August 18, 2008 at 2:09 am

    Erik i agree with you that man has been around MUCH longer than a few thousand years and it is truly my goal to mix science and and belief in God. Religion and Christianity are general terms and don’t reflect my personal belief. There is no conflict between science and the bible. Real scientific discoveries must be distinguished from theories, however, science especially geology, is still in its infancy and the testimony of rocks uncertain. True statements of God’s Word must also be distinguished from mans interpretation of them. When men finally agree on the age of the earth, then place the many years (over the historical 6,000) between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, there will be no conflict between the book of Genesis and science. The bible says we were created perfect and highly intelligent able to name all other created things. Since the day he was created man has fallen to be depraved and ignorant compared to his original creative ,make-up.Genesis 2:7 states “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life ; and man became a living soul” (NKJV) This is where i believe the difference is. Once man had a soul he had free will. Lucifer was on earth befor Adam with kingdoms and that is era of “caveman” (so to speak) with no soul. (Ezek 28: 11-17). Well lets stop there b4 i get off subject. Anyway im enjoying this discussion and i think in the end we’ll be able to communicate the P.O.V that we are defending equally and understandably. (p.s I’m just another believer in the pews and by no means claim to be a theologian or an educated scientist. I’ll be attending DeVry in Sept. to earn a degree in electronic engineering tech.I’m just a 32 y/o regular dude.)

  24. 25 ronopotomus
    October 13, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Here you go… http://bitt.tv/torrents-details.php?id=21249

    http://scenereleases.info/2008/10/expelled-no-intelligence-allowed-dvdrip-xvid-nedivx.html#comments

    The BIGGEST argument against evolution is Erik John Bertel. What a jackass.

    Enjoy
    Ronopotomus Jones

  25. October 21, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Gee, didn’t I see you at a Palin rally yelling “kill him”? Do me a favor don’t come back here until you get an original thought will ya?

  26. 27 ronopotomus jones
    November 4, 2008 at 7:45 am

    Far reaching there Erik. You removed my post until you had a comeback and that was it? I will do you a favor. I will take my original thoughts elsewhere. Good luck with your rants and “independent thought”. Actually, to believe in creation is quite the alternate thought these days. As it turns out… I’m actually quite alternative as opposed to you coffee shop mallternatives. I was going to take a look at your book but I couldn’t find it on Amazon??? I guess your just too prolific and ahead of your time for us regular old Joe the Plumber types. Let me know when you evolve there Erik and until then take pride in the fact that you are the smartest guy on the net as you sit in your underwear ranting and raving about all the things you don’t like. The world is listening.

    Ronopotomusjones@sbcglobal.net

  27. November 4, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    You came back? That’s interesting that you picture me in my underwear but unfortunately for you I am usually fully dressed when I type my blog. As to Amazon, anybody can pay to play and be listed at Amazon. The fun part is marketing your novel with absolutely no funding. The book is available for free at Podiobooks and the PDF will be available soon for download. I know you hate to hear this but I have had tens of thousands of downloads meaning more people have heard my audiobook than have read the typical Amazon offering. As to coffee shops I brew my own fresh for the most part.

    You sound angry, I guess today’s election results aren’t going to help your disposition. At least you’ll have the satisfaction of knowing, as Ibsen wrote, “The majority is always wrong; the minority is rarely right.”

    Erik John Bertel

  28. November 8, 2008 at 4:16 am

    I wanted to thank you gentlemen for the privilege of watching you quibble. It is quite entertaining. I so enjoy the holy pretense of the right and the sanctimonious ignorance of the left. While each side has merit, there remains vacuous logic on either side and such posturing. It’s got a good beat to it, but you can’t dance to it, so I will give you’re respective arguments a 69. Presidents, without a willing Congress, don’t pass laws and they are not responsible for economic downturns. That is a myth. And everytime there is an election the economy miraculously dives into the toilet. Can I get a “worst economy in 50 years” witness! *Amen!* Bush was not able to deliver, because a majority of Dems wanted him to fail so they could control all branches of govt. On the other hand, Bush was apparently a willing participant to his own downfall. Go figgure. An now, not since Blazing Saddles have I seen such grandstanding for a black man in power. I hope it goes well for him. Because it is not his race, nor his religion that will be tested in the upcoming term, but, rather, his mettle. And the Left better hope their theories are correct, because now they have everything they need to put them into operation. If they are wrong, it will be a shot in the arm for coservatives. It is just beautiful. The system still works after so many years. I have to run now. I haven’t eaten all day and I think I heard a spotted owl land on my gun cabinet.

  29. April 2, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    For those that care my first novel in the Trilogy, Flores Girl: The Children God Forgot, is now available on Amazon for the Kindle Reader at a very reasonable price:

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UE6MDY

    Enjoy!

    Erik John Bertel


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


Get the Free Flores Girl e-Book at FloresGirl.com

Flores Girl: The Children God Forgot is an exciting speculative adventure story about the discovery of a new prehistoric people by two scientists, Sarah and Richard. Their discovery is threatened by both religious zealots and marauding industrialists. Download the e-Book in PDF, Mobi and Microsoft Reader formats. Honest it is free at floresgirl.com. Just click the chick!

For More Pro-Evolution Rants go to www.thefloresgirlblog.com

Pages

May 2008
M T W T F S S
« Apr   Jun »
 1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031  

Flores Girl Twitters

  • Okay, this first couple of weeks with Trump is getting confusing. Is Trump opting for a monarchy or a Home Shopping Network knockoff?Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 8 months ago
  • The way the Trump campaign is going lately, Hillary will have to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue before I consider voting for Trump!Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • No dog in this fight, operative word being dog but it's hard for anybody to get any oxygen, good or bad, with Trump's Carpet Twittering!Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • So is anyone surprised that Slovenia Barbie admires the Donald for his mind and charm?Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • Ted Cruz: UntrusTED!Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • Two Corinthians walked into a bar on 5th Avenue and insulted Trump. He ran away!Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • 2 Corinthians walk into a 5th Avenue bar in NYC and Donald Trump shot them.Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • @monkeywright No, those in the west who are thinking about joining ISIS need to here this more than anyone else.Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 1 year ago
  • 5 tweeps followed (thank you!) and 3 unfollowed (goodbye!) me in the past week. Thank you crowdfireapp.com/?r=tw.Join the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 2 years ago
  • Growing and engaging with the right tweeps - gained 1 new follower in the past week, courtesy crowdfireapp.com/?r=twJoin the Flores Girl Twitters, Quotes from the Novel 2 years ago

Technorati Profile

RSS Download the Free Flores Girl Podcast at Podiobooks

  • Exodus - The Final Chapter
    Sarah and Richard must fight their way off the island in this final installment of the podcast.
  • Your Hands are Stained with Blood.
    As death and chaos overtakes the island, Sarah and Richard try to escape Reggie.
  • An Unlikely Ally
    Reggie begins a reign of terror on the island that will leave nobody, including the Ebu, safe from his murderous schemes. Reggie's only challenge will be a visit from the biggest murderer in human history.
  • The Capture
    Sarah and Richard must make their escape after witnessing Reggie's brutal capture of the Ebu.
  • The Guardian Meets the Lab Rat
    Bill is presuaded by Reggie to meet with Karl.
  • The Guardian
    Karl's fever starts to takes a toll on his sanity as his efforts to contact the Ebu becomes a religious quest for him
  • New Friends
    Sarah's relationships with both Richard and Flo take a surprising turn.
  • Christian Soldier
    Reggies discovers the island of the Ebu and begins his assault but not before Karl makes his move.
  • The Cost of Weakness
    A senseless act of violence challenges Sarah and her tenuous relationships with the inhabitants of the island.
  • Weakness
    Sarah is stricken by a life threatening illness that triggers a strange personal odyssey for her.
  • The Princess Meets Flo
    While observing the troop, Sarah forms a friendship with one of the Ebu that she names Flo.
  • By the Sea
    Sarah makes a risky first contact with the Ebu.
  • 14. The Wait - Flores Girl: The Children God Forgot
    -In this episode: Sarah and Richard wait for the Ebu at a small pond.
  • Discovery
    Sarah and Richard begin their exploration of the island in search of the Ebu.
  • Resolve
    After losing everything to the pirates, Sarah and Richard face their own personal failure and decide whether or not they should return to the states.
  • Pirates of the Flores Sea
    As they begin to set out for Sarah's island, Sarah's and Richard's boat is boarded by dangerous high-sea pirates.
  • All Work and No Play
    Before leaving for Sarah's mysterious island Sarah and Richard head out for a night on the town in Flores.
  • The Boss
    Sarah and Richard put their expedition together and travel to Flores Island in search of the Ebu Gogo.
  • Higher Calling
    Unbeknownst to Reggie and Bill, Karl, the head lab assistant at GenTech, is busily sabotaging the pharmaceutical giant's controversial stem cell research.
  • Corporate Citizen
    Ruthless elements within a large pharmaceutical company make their own plans for the Ebu.

%d bloggers like this: